1. Building 7 of the World Trade Center complex was not hit by an airplane, yet it collapsed at all but exactly free-fall speed. This seems to run counter to ALL PREVIOUS KNOWLEDGE of structure fires, and the behavior of steel structures while aflame. Never before or since this event has a steel framed building collapsed into itself at nearly free-fall speed, from fire and only fire. And that, of course, is the official story. Observe the footage of building 7's collapse. Hopefully you're already familiar, as anyone even remotely concerned with what happens in their country should be. Then compare that footage to stock footage of building demolitions. The images will be virtually indistinguishable. There is a tell-tale buckling of the roof (which begins collapse before the rest of the building) toward the center, which is exactly what one would expect during a demolition of a building.
Another very instructive comparison to make is between the footage of building 7 and other high rise buildings that have caught fire. One of the liberty towers in Philadelphia, for example, burned for over 12 hours, if I remember correctly.. officials on the scene described it as probably the worst high rise building fire in American history. The building is lit up like a torch, bright as the sun. The images of this event couldn't be any more different from building 7 on sept. 11. The fire in building 7 is emitting very dark smoke, which indicates an OXYGEN STARVED fire, rather than the thinner type smoke emitted from hotter, oxygen-fed fires. There are other skyscraper fires to compare this event to. There was one in Spain in 2005. Same story. Much bigger, brighter fire, and no collapse. And definitely no collapse at free fall speed, something all but impossible to accomplish unless a building's core support apparatus has been neutralized.
Either NYC has employed the most mediocre of engineers and architects.. or the official explanation of this event, as a fire-caused collapse is simply incorrect. There's much more to bring up regarding building 7, but I'll move on to another point for now.
2. THE TESTIMONY OF FORMER C.I.A AGENT SYBEL EDMONDS. Recently, this brave woman broke a federal gag order by announcing to the press that the agency she was a member of had direct contact with Al Qaeda and Bin Laden all the way up to the very day of September 11th. This is a startling revelation, as there is already a bucketful of evidence linking American intelligence to Al Qaeda, which in Arabic, means "The Base," and is in literal reference to a computer database the military kept in the '80's, of middle-eastern mercenaries willing to do the C.I.A's bidding. Combine this unsettling fact with the fact that Osama Bin Laden was visited by American intelligence officials in a Saudi Arabian hospital just months before the attacks, where he was receiving dialisis treatment, and also the fact that other whistle-blowers have revealed having Bin Laden in the crosshairs, and being ordered not to take the shot.. and the possibility that Al Qaeda is really a patsy organization, under the wing of the C.I.A, becomes more than mere idle speculation.
3. A common response to the obvious discrepancies between the official explanation, and the video footage of all 3 buildings collapsing in a manner consistent with demolition, and inconsistent with fire, is: "Well, there's really no point in going over this, since we'll never know exactly how they fell, until another two planes fly into another two towers.. so let's just forget about it."
It's important to patiently remind people that the one and only reason we are unable to ascertain the exact cause of all 3 collapses is because the federal government, only days after the attack, arranged for the steel debris to be shipped off to China to be melted down and used to make various slave labor products. Obviously excavation should have begun as soon as was possible, but shipping the debris, which would have contained AN ABUNDANCE of forensic and ballistic evidence, to a foreign country just days after the attacks, constitutes tampering with evidence in a federal crime scene, a very serious offense.
4. At least six of the alleged suicide hijackers have come out publicly, declaring that they are alive and not involved in any terrorism. Despite this amazing fact, these individuals remain on the F.B.I's list of the 19 hijackers, and no explanation or acknowledgment of this fact is offered.
5. In the 1950's, a B52 bomber flew HEAD FIRST, in foggy weather, into the empire state buildiing. There was some loss of life, obviously.. and it was quite a challenge for the firefighters at the time. But no big deal. No collapse. And that was a B52 bomber.
6. Samples of Nano-thermite, found at/near the crime scene, within the dust from the debris. Samples acquired and studied by Dr. Steven Jones, Physicist. Nano-thermite is significant, because it's an industrial explosive, commonly used in the demolition industry. It's presence within the debris is extremely difficult to explain, from the standpoint of the official story, since there is really no conceivable explanation for this particular substance to have been present naturally.
7. The Director of the 9/11 Commission, the federal government's excuse for an investigation, is an individual named Philip Zelikow. The problem with Philip Zelikow is that he co-authored a book with Condoleeza Rice, and has close ties and friendships with several members of the Bush administration. This is just one example of the multitude of conflicts of interest within the 9/11 Commission and it's final report.
8. NASA thermographic pictures from MONTHS after the attack show significant amounts of MOLTEN METAL still pooled beneath the rubble. The temperatures of this molten steel far exceed the maximum burning temperature of jet fuel. And that's jet fuel at its MAXIMUM. Forget about jet fuel after months of smoldering, there's no way these temperatures would be at the level necessary to maintain a pool of melted steel. Do you know what is consistent with lingering pools of molten steel, though? EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF THE MILITARY GRADE INDUSTRIAL EXPLOSIVE, NANO-THERMITE, AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED.
9, The Project For A New American Century (PNAC). This is a document published by a Neoconservative thinktank in 2000, within which the neocons complain about how their agenda for securing American dominance during the upcoming century isn't progressing quickly enough for them, and that a "NEW PEARL HARBOR" as they put it, is necessary, if the American people are going to be sufficiently galvanized into future wars for empire. About one year later, they got the "new pearl harbor" they were looking for.
Please rigorously fact-check any of this that sounds far fetched or made up.
I believe that exposing the crime of 9/11 is key to putting the brakes on this entire nightmare that has been thrust upon us since then, first by the Neocons, during Bush's eight years, and now, it's become obvious, also by Obama's fake liberal front, and his Wall Street handlers.
It's very difficult to stir the American public into becoming proactive. Very few things have been able to do that. But once it's done it's one of the most insurmountable forces the globe's ever seen. The overwhelming public outcry over Vietnam springs to mind as a powerful example of this. Another is the progress made with workers' rights in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
I believe this type of awakening and empowerment is in order once again. And a true realization of the motives and culprits behind 9/11 is precisely the remedy to the sociological disorder that has plagued our nation since that horrible day.
Showing posts with label Steven Jones. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Steven Jones. Show all posts
Monday, November 23, 2009
Monday, September 14, 2009
More Gibroney Huntin' (cont)
This dude not only accepts the "gross incompetence" fable, but takes it one step further, and asserts that 9/11 Truth is actually fomented and instigated by the establishment itself, in order to cover up incompetence and enforce a false notion of American omnipotence. And we're the "conspiracy theorists"?
Some Gibroney: Is there a cover-up involving 9/11? Most certainly, especially given all the evidence in the materials you've sent me. However, it is my opinion that most theories of this sort are cover stories deliberately propagated (if not created) by intelligence organs of the gov't to distract people from its periodic episodes of gross incompetence w/r/t security, exemplified by the JFK assassination and 9/11.
Some facts:
The CIA has brought radical Muslims into the US. The hijackers trained on US military bases. More military training exercises were scheduled for September 11, 2001 than usual. Hijackers were able to enter the airspace of, to say nothing of crashing a plane into, the headquarters of the most powerful military in human history and so on and so on...
We know that the US gov't has a long history of psychological operations against its own population; the UFO/alien myth for instance is propagated (probably with the collusion of Hollywood) to distract the public from the size and scope of the black military budget and the high-tech weaponry and vehicles it produces. The US gov't is also well known for its history of covert paramilitary action, but the vast majority of that is concentrated abroad, with a few exceptions (COINTELPRO being one).
As far as I can tell, there are two viable explanations that incorporate all of these facts:
1) A high-level conspiracy involving dozens, if not hundreds, of specially trained individuals and agents, none of whom are affected by the temptation to expose one of the greatest conspiracies in world history and thus become (inter)national heroes.
2) Gross incompetence (with probably some bad luck) on the part of the US intelligence/security apparatus, with a cover-up/conspiracy theory generated later to make sure the administration would not be viewed as bunglers, but as nigh-omnipotent masterminds.
The main reason we can reject explanation 1 is that any of the purported 'inside job' 9/11 schemes would have a very low chance of succeeding. Undertaking such a plan would be costly, elaborate, and difficult to keep under wraps because of the extremely high risk of detection and/or defection. If the aim of the 9/11 attacks was to drum up support for an aggressive foreign policy in general (and eventual war with Iraq in particular), a far easier plan would've been to engage in some of the things recommended by Operation Northwoods, particularly a bombing campaign. Stealing or fabricating seemingly Iraqi-made explosives is well within the powers of US intelligence, but even in that case, an eventual leak of their real source is very likely, given the amount of manpower and resources necessary for such an operation.
It is very useful to compare the events of 9/11 with those of the Kennedy assassination. They share many features: a devastating security breach, evidence for (probably unwitting) CIA involvement with the perpetrators (making the incidents a form of blowback), a deliberately avoidant and selectively informative gov't commission, and, I believe, manipulation of public paranoia in the form of deliberately and systematically withheld evidence (e.g. Kennedy's missing brain, the confiscated Pentagon security camera tapes). In both cases, the credibility of the US security apparatus is on the line. Fear is a crucial component of the power of these organizations; if they lose face they lose much of their ability to indimidate.
Machiavelli wrote that "it is better to be feared than loved", but being feared is also better than being thought a buffoon (and fessing up to criminal negligence). We need only look as far as the Bush administration's record in Afghanistan and Iraq to see how incompetent they really are when it comes to security, in both the short- and long-term. And as depicted in the video you sent me, before 9/11, high US gov't officials were either dismissive of critical intelligence (e.g. the memo infamously ignored by Condi Rice and others), or they never received it, which explains Bush & co.'s fetishistic obsession with more communication and integration among the US's various intelligence agencies. Though the CIA probably had contacts with bin Laden's organization, including several of the hijackers, it would be fallacious to then conclude that the CIA intended for those individuals to undertake terrorist acts against the United States; it seems evident to me that the authors of that video are taking Chomsky's words out of context.
The video does not address another crucial section of that particular Q&A of Chomsky's talk in Hungary, in which he discusses the nature of controlled experiments conducted in the best laboratories in the world under controlled conditions. A scientist routinely encounters strange patterns and coincidences, even apparent violations of the laws of nature under such conditions, but if (s)he approaches the experiment with scientific skepticism, (s)he will perform the experiment as many times as possible to make sure that all of the data is meaningful and there are no hidden variables. We don't have that luxury with the 9/11 attacks; they can only happen once. The precise reasons for (say) the structural collapse of the WTC complex can only be surmised, and only very sketchily modeled. There are so many variables in this case, it should come as no surprise that the conclusions of Steven Jones and others are only endorsed by a fraction of accredited architects and engineers.
In conclusion, it seems reasonable to me to surmise, based on the available evidence, that certain facts about the 9/11 attacks are indeed being downplayed, ignored, or denied by certain members of the American political establishment. But it's far more likely that they're all trying to cover their asses after carelessly letting a catastrophe unfold. It's important to maintain healthy skepticism w/r/t the actions of very powerful states, but just because they're hiding something, doesn't mean they're hiding what you (or me, or anyone else) THINKS they're hiding.
The Gibroney Hunter: Thanks for taking the time to respond, it's amazing how rare it is for people to be willing to seriously debate or discuss the matter, rather than resorting to arguing like children. I'll try to address some of your points.
The "gross incompetence" theory is commonly offered as a response to the abundance of incriminating evidence indicating federal involvement. I could find some merit in this if the case against the establishment was based solely on a few instances of counterintelligence. Unfortunately, however, much of the evidence is far too direct and damning to be accounted for by such a theory.
For example, the video evidence of building 7's collapse is in no way consistent with a collapse caused by fire. A photograph clearly showing smoke rising from the lower levels of the north tower, before either building was hit by aircraft. The fact that the federal government promised to have a large amount of evidence linking Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to the attacks. 8 years on, they have yet to reveal any of this evidence whatsoever. Which would seem counterintuitive, since the single best way to disprove us "conspiracy theorists" would be to simply provide us with the evidence that we were, after all, promised by the government shortly after the attacks. (The "smoking gun" video evidence, which in my opinion features an obvious body double with darker skin and higher cheekbones, is the sole article offered to the public)
If all of this evidence (which is by no means the bulk of it all) is to be explained as merely part of an elaborate disinformation campaign, then that would seem to clash with the "gross incompetence" theory, since that very incompetence should logically be expected to result in the uncovering of this supposed disinformation. It's important to keep in mind that there are numerous independent journalists, investigators, and truth seekers working daily to uncover any and all information regarding 9/11. As far as I know, no one has provided hard evidence of such a disinformation campaign (as opposed to the disinformation that is the official story, for which there is overwhelming evidence of it's existence)
I find it very difficult to believe that if, for example, Steven Jones' evidence of nano-thermite was falsified, no one would uncover this fact or at the very least uncover reasons to be suspicious of that fact. To summarize, the reason I don't give much credence to the theory that the 9/11 Truth movement is the result of disinformation, intended to serve as a smokescreen for incompetence, is because there's simply no evidence to support this claim. If you're aware of any, I'd be very interested to see it.
The main reason the cause of the structural collapse of the buildings can only be surmised is because the steel debris, which should have been treated as evidence in a massive crime scene, was sold off to China to be recycled. It's highly likely that a forensic study of that steel would have resulted in a conclusive analysis of the towers' collapse.
I believe the reason Steven Jones' work has been ignored by mainstream science is blacklisting, plain and simple. Assuming the establishment's story is true, it should be in their best interest to have his work peer-reviewed, in order to finally quell this controversy. Instead he's fired from his job and ignored by all major scientific journals. The sad truth is that the financiers of scientific and medical research have far too big a say in the direction of that research, and this generally explains why ideas such as Jones' are whitewashed. Also, a Danish scientist, along with 8 others, recently reached the same conclusions as Jones, and his findings have been gaining attention and traction since he presented them. Anyone even vaguely familiar with the history of science is aware that new ideas are not always welcomed with open arms, and often it's a gradual process of awareness.
Some Gibroney: Is there a cover-up involving 9/11? Most certainly, especially given all the evidence in the materials you've sent me. However, it is my opinion that most theories of this sort are cover stories deliberately propagated (if not created) by intelligence organs of the gov't to distract people from its periodic episodes of gross incompetence w/r/t security, exemplified by the JFK assassination and 9/11.
Some facts:
The CIA has brought radical Muslims into the US. The hijackers trained on US military bases. More military training exercises were scheduled for September 11, 2001 than usual. Hijackers were able to enter the airspace of, to say nothing of crashing a plane into, the headquarters of the most powerful military in human history and so on and so on...
We know that the US gov't has a long history of psychological operations against its own population; the UFO/alien myth for instance is propagated (probably with the collusion of Hollywood) to distract the public from the size and scope of the black military budget and the high-tech weaponry and vehicles it produces. The US gov't is also well known for its history of covert paramilitary action, but the vast majority of that is concentrated abroad, with a few exceptions (COINTELPRO being one).
As far as I can tell, there are two viable explanations that incorporate all of these facts:
1) A high-level conspiracy involving dozens, if not hundreds, of specially trained individuals and agents, none of whom are affected by the temptation to expose one of the greatest conspiracies in world history and thus become (inter)national heroes.
2) Gross incompetence (with probably some bad luck) on the part of the US intelligence/security apparatus, with a cover-up/conspiracy theory generated later to make sure the administration would not be viewed as bunglers, but as nigh-omnipotent masterminds.
The main reason we can reject explanation 1 is that any of the purported 'inside job' 9/11 schemes would have a very low chance of succeeding. Undertaking such a plan would be costly, elaborate, and difficult to keep under wraps because of the extremely high risk of detection and/or defection. If the aim of the 9/11 attacks was to drum up support for an aggressive foreign policy in general (and eventual war with Iraq in particular), a far easier plan would've been to engage in some of the things recommended by Operation Northwoods, particularly a bombing campaign. Stealing or fabricating seemingly Iraqi-made explosives is well within the powers of US intelligence, but even in that case, an eventual leak of their real source is very likely, given the amount of manpower and resources necessary for such an operation.
It is very useful to compare the events of 9/11 with those of the Kennedy assassination. They share many features: a devastating security breach, evidence for (probably unwitting) CIA involvement with the perpetrators (making the incidents a form of blowback), a deliberately avoidant and selectively informative gov't commission, and, I believe, manipulation of public paranoia in the form of deliberately and systematically withheld evidence (e.g. Kennedy's missing brain, the confiscated Pentagon security camera tapes). In both cases, the credibility of the US security apparatus is on the line. Fear is a crucial component of the power of these organizations; if they lose face they lose much of their ability to indimidate.
Machiavelli wrote that "it is better to be feared than loved", but being feared is also better than being thought a buffoon (and fessing up to criminal negligence). We need only look as far as the Bush administration's record in Afghanistan and Iraq to see how incompetent they really are when it comes to security, in both the short- and long-term. And as depicted in the video you sent me, before 9/11, high US gov't officials were either dismissive of critical intelligence (e.g. the memo infamously ignored by Condi Rice and others), or they never received it, which explains Bush & co.'s fetishistic obsession with more communication and integration among the US's various intelligence agencies. Though the CIA probably had contacts with bin Laden's organization, including several of the hijackers, it would be fallacious to then conclude that the CIA intended for those individuals to undertake terrorist acts against the United States; it seems evident to me that the authors of that video are taking Chomsky's words out of context.
The video does not address another crucial section of that particular Q&A of Chomsky's talk in Hungary, in which he discusses the nature of controlled experiments conducted in the best laboratories in the world under controlled conditions. A scientist routinely encounters strange patterns and coincidences, even apparent violations of the laws of nature under such conditions, but if (s)he approaches the experiment with scientific skepticism, (s)he will perform the experiment as many times as possible to make sure that all of the data is meaningful and there are no hidden variables. We don't have that luxury with the 9/11 attacks; they can only happen once. The precise reasons for (say) the structural collapse of the WTC complex can only be surmised, and only very sketchily modeled. There are so many variables in this case, it should come as no surprise that the conclusions of Steven Jones and others are only endorsed by a fraction of accredited architects and engineers.
In conclusion, it seems reasonable to me to surmise, based on the available evidence, that certain facts about the 9/11 attacks are indeed being downplayed, ignored, or denied by certain members of the American political establishment. But it's far more likely that they're all trying to cover their asses after carelessly letting a catastrophe unfold. It's important to maintain healthy skepticism w/r/t the actions of very powerful states, but just because they're hiding something, doesn't mean they're hiding what you (or me, or anyone else) THINKS they're hiding.
The Gibroney Hunter: Thanks for taking the time to respond, it's amazing how rare it is for people to be willing to seriously debate or discuss the matter, rather than resorting to arguing like children. I'll try to address some of your points.
The "gross incompetence" theory is commonly offered as a response to the abundance of incriminating evidence indicating federal involvement. I could find some merit in this if the case against the establishment was based solely on a few instances of counterintelligence. Unfortunately, however, much of the evidence is far too direct and damning to be accounted for by such a theory.
For example, the video evidence of building 7's collapse is in no way consistent with a collapse caused by fire. A photograph clearly showing smoke rising from the lower levels of the north tower, before either building was hit by aircraft. The fact that the federal government promised to have a large amount of evidence linking Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to the attacks. 8 years on, they have yet to reveal any of this evidence whatsoever. Which would seem counterintuitive, since the single best way to disprove us "conspiracy theorists" would be to simply provide us with the evidence that we were, after all, promised by the government shortly after the attacks. (The "smoking gun" video evidence, which in my opinion features an obvious body double with darker skin and higher cheekbones, is the sole article offered to the public)
If all of this evidence (which is by no means the bulk of it all) is to be explained as merely part of an elaborate disinformation campaign, then that would seem to clash with the "gross incompetence" theory, since that very incompetence should logically be expected to result in the uncovering of this supposed disinformation. It's important to keep in mind that there are numerous independent journalists, investigators, and truth seekers working daily to uncover any and all information regarding 9/11. As far as I know, no one has provided hard evidence of such a disinformation campaign (as opposed to the disinformation that is the official story, for which there is overwhelming evidence of it's existence)
I find it very difficult to believe that if, for example, Steven Jones' evidence of nano-thermite was falsified, no one would uncover this fact or at the very least uncover reasons to be suspicious of that fact. To summarize, the reason I don't give much credence to the theory that the 9/11 Truth movement is the result of disinformation, intended to serve as a smokescreen for incompetence, is because there's simply no evidence to support this claim. If you're aware of any, I'd be very interested to see it.
The main reason the cause of the structural collapse of the buildings can only be surmised is because the steel debris, which should have been treated as evidence in a massive crime scene, was sold off to China to be recycled. It's highly likely that a forensic study of that steel would have resulted in a conclusive analysis of the towers' collapse.
I believe the reason Steven Jones' work has been ignored by mainstream science is blacklisting, plain and simple. Assuming the establishment's story is true, it should be in their best interest to have his work peer-reviewed, in order to finally quell this controversy. Instead he's fired from his job and ignored by all major scientific journals. The sad truth is that the financiers of scientific and medical research have far too big a say in the direction of that research, and this generally explains why ideas such as Jones' are whitewashed. Also, a Danish scientist, along with 8 others, recently reached the same conclusions as Jones, and his findings have been gaining attention and traction since he presented them. Anyone even vaguely familiar with the history of science is aware that new ideas are not always welcomed with open arms, and often it's a gradual process of awareness.
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